Denko MALESKI
Law School, Skopje

Interview for
"Nova Makedonija"

May 12/13, 2001

N. M. - Macedonia has been placed in a position to resolve the crisis with the assistance of the international community. How will that influence the state's ratings?

D.M. - Let us introduce some precision in our speech and say that Macedonia has placed itself in the situation to resolve its ethnic crisis with the help from abroad. Namely, I am not satisfied with the way the interethnic dialogue was lead during the past ten years and I will illustrate this with the shots, the strikes, the words of hatred, and even a lost human life that were part of that process. We could even be much stricter towards ourselves if we agree that the mentioned manifestations are not the usual instruments of a civilized interethnic dialogue, and say that a democratic interethnic dialogue did not exist in Macedonia in the past ten years. What we had, in fact, were two completely isolated ethnic monologues, where the Macedonian side insisted on its "civil society" concept, while the Albanian on its "constituent nation" concept. I am astonished by the fact how quickly we forgot the lesson of the fall of communism: to be peoples guided by a free thought that follows real life and does not allow to become prisoner of concepts and ideologues and the extremism they produce. Such hermetically closed models created a situation where each side takes an absolutist position towards its interests, creating tensions that lead us to the brink of civil war. The mediation of OSCE's commissioner for human rights Van der Stool during the past decade is proof of the need for involvement of the international community during all these years, as well as by NATO's and EU's Robertson and Solana, when the situation threatened to spin out of control. Should I speak of the international ratings of the state?

N.M. - Is the situation in Macedonia such that it had to allow international mediation?

D.M. - It depends how you look at the previous period. If you are satisfied with what the interethnic dialogue produced, if you think that the political elites successfully coped with the complex aspects of Macedonian-Albanian relations, than you are one of those who think that foreign intervention in our domestic matters is not needed. If, on the other hand see the dialogue as unsuccessful and that the political elites are not capable of producing a solution for problems of whose solution depends the survival of the state, then you can not but experience foreign involvement with relief and hope.

N.M. - Does the present condition, when under international pressure a new government is created, with suggestions for the need of political dialogue and changes in the political system, mean intervention in the domestic affairs of the state?

D.M. - There should be no confusion: what is taking place is intervention in the internal affairs of a sovereign state. But some, including myself, see this as a necessity. I would even go further and say that even the political elites, facing hard political choices, approve of this, if not publicly, then silently. Why? Because, apart from privileges that participating in the political life of a country offers, there are times when difficult and unpopular political decisions must be made. Since the political instinct to stay in power makes politicians avoid making such decisions, but also makes them aware that such avoidance will only deepen the crisis thus jeopardizing their position, foreign intervention is welcomed. But, that too is not enough. It is necessary that everyone "dirty his hands", so that no one would cry "treason", a word so close to our lips. A solution for this is the wide coalition. In any case, difficult and politically unpopular decisions await the political representatives of Macedonia, and nobody is especially happy for being a leading politician at this point in time. But if they produce a peaceful solution that would usher us into an era of progress, the politicians will deserve our respect.

N.M - Does history know such situations, excluding those in a state of war?

D.M. - Let us not go into history or world practice. It is quite enough to look at what the former Yugoslav republics, now independent states went trough, and things will be clearer. Namely, not only does the foreign factor intervene with emissaries, but also, as in the case of Bosnia and Kosovo, with bombs, whenever they come to the conclusion that the line of permitted behavior has been crossed. Ethnic slaughters have been and still are such forms of forbiden behavior in our region. You see we would like to share prosperity and security with Europe and the United States, but find their rules of permitted behavior difficult, experiencing them as meddling in our domestic affairs. Well, these two things go together - if we want to be in their company we have to behave according to their rules.

N.M. - Is the present behavior of the international community towards Macedonia in accordance with international norms?

D.M. - This question also implies the notion that someone from outside is working against the interests of our state, doing something that is not permitted by international norms, since, I presume, is contrary to our will. Let me explain the dilemma we are facing with very simple words. Ours is a sovereign state and if we do not like foreigners we can tell them to leave. If we do not like the EU or NATO, we can say that openly and chose another foreign policy option. But we can not seek membership in these organizations and, at the same time, complain about the EU and NATO standards of behavior that they are imposing on us.

N.M. - Are interethnic relations in the state bad to the extent that they produce acts of terrorism or, we can speak of occupation of parts of our territory?

D.M. - Even though infiltration of terrorist groups from Kosovo is a serious provocation, it should not surprise us. It is, in fact, surprising how this did not happen before. Namely, the decade long bloody disintegration of Yugoslavia produced everything but civilization on our borders. It produced, apart from freedom fighters, armed gangs, smugglers, corruption and crime, the largest military intervention in Europe since the end of the Second World War... It is very probable that in the chaos created borders, to a great extent, did not exist. A confirmation of this thesis was everything that happened after the signing of the agreement on the borders with Yugoslavia, when Macedonia tried immediately to establish control over every single foot of its territory. I presume that the state knew of the chaos that was spilled over the borders and which was the result of tectonic shifts, much more powerful than the capabilities of our state, and of any government. This action, by which we tried immediately to resolve a problem that, for example, far more powerful Serbia in the Preshevo and Bujanovac valley is still not capable of resolving, was legitimate. It is another question whether it is wise and weather diplomacy, as an instrument for peaceful resolution of conflicts should not have priority over law. Books on diplomacy say that the worst diplomats are fanatics and lawyers, while the best are a little skeptical human being with common sense. I have a feeling that we are in need of the latter. Going back to your question I will say, in the contexts of this wider picture of the region that I tried to draw, that reasons for terrorist attacks can be of different nature, while everyone using them for their own aims - from freedom fighters to smugglers. But what are of utmost importance for us are the extent to which these intrusions can destabilize the interethnic balance in Macedonia and the extent to which the problem is "imported" or is "domestic". Politics must give an open and exact estimation. If it is imported, we will deal with it successfully, but if it is domestic, then it is another story and demands other means for its solution.

N.M. - Can the current crisis delay the realization of the Agreement for stabilization and association with the EU?

D.M. - Absolutely yes. There are no miracles in that agreement. It only opens the road to Europe through hard work and reform of our economy, jurisdiction and politics according to EU standards with the aim of creating a vibrant European society. Since, on the other hand, our energy is not limitless; it is up to us to decide how we are going to spend it.

N.M. - Are you an optimist?

D.M. - When I hear the word "optimism" in relation to Balkan affairs, I remember a thought by literature Nobel prize winner Ivo Andrich, on what he calls "oriental optimism". It is the kind of optimism that does not look for it foundations in real life, but in itself. Among our people it is known as " ne beri gajle"(“don’t worry at all”) Well, if we reject this oriental optimism and look at the real life processes, there is no place for optimism. What I mean to say is that after the creation of the Grand coalition, we will continue to live with politicians whose main concerns are more personal power and wealth, and with intellectuals whose greed for personal fame and honors has no limits. The common denominator of the behavior of these two dominant groups in Macedonian politics, is the fact that gone wild by the freedom they are experiencing, forget the ordinary man, usurping his freedom for their personal politics. Who is this ordinary man? Well, it could be our neighbor or relative whose factory has failed in the market, whose wife does not work, and his son, an engineer of some thirty years of age is looking for ways to escape from the country. The German poet Heine, a friend of Marx, appalled by the misery around him, joined the socialist movement, aware, as he wrote that the workers would use the paper on which his poems are written to wrap fish in the marketplace. A little compassion of our politicians and intellectuals with the little man and his huge problems would not be contrary to democracy and freedom. Compassion for those ordinary people who, worried for the life and the future of their children, with a sad smile or fury follow the grotesque pushing and shoving on the narrow Macedonian political scene of a mob of "egomaniacs" - politicians and intellectuals.